by Scott Creighton
CIAnonymous has put out a video in which they claim a major disruption in the force is going to take place in 9 days here in the States. They say Jill Stein’s recount effort isn’t actually about having the votes recounted or exposing the deeply problematic “black box voting” system we have here in the United States as much as it is about delaying the certification of the Electoral College votes of three states (Pennsylvania, Wisconsin and Michigan) past the Dec. 13th deadline.
As their theory goes, if Stein’s effort, run by a slew of Democrats by the way, is successful in delaying the states’ confirmation of the vote tallies past that Dec. 13th deadline, in theory, they could then use that delay to throw a wrench into the official confirmation process resulting ultimately in the US House of Representatives holding a vote on the floor to decide who the next president of the United States would be from a pool of three possible candidates, the three who earned the most EC votes in the election. The office of Vice President would be decided the same way meaning there could in fact be an outcome that sees Hillary Clinton made president and Mike Pence her Vice President. The applicable law is the 12th Amendment to the Constitution.
That brings up an interesting problem in that only Trump and Clinton have any EC votes. Coming in third is everyone else. So theoretically, Stein and Gary Johnson would both be eligible for that “election” in the House. So would their respective VP nominees.
Here is the applicable deadline breakdown as per US law:
December 13, 2016 (“safe harbor” deadline)States must make final decisions in any controversies over the appointment of their electors at least six days before the meeting of the Electors. This is so their electoral votes will be presumed valid when presented to Congress.Decisions by states’ courts are conclusive, if decided under laws enacted before Election Day.December 19, 2016The Electors meet in their state and vote for President and Vice President on separate ballots. The electors record their votes on six “Certificates of Vote,” which are paired with the six remaining Certificates of Ascertainment.The electors sign, seal, and certify six sets of electoral votes. A set of electoral votes consists of one Certificate of Ascertainment and one Certificate of Vote. These are distributed immediately as follows:
- one set to the President of the Senate (the Vice President) for the official count of the electoral votes in January;
- two packages to the Secretary of State in the state where the electors met—one is an archival set that becomes part of the public record of the Secretary of State’s office and the other is a reserve set that is subject to the call of the President of the Senate to replace missing or incomplete electoral votes;
- two packages to the Archivist—one is an archival set that becomes part of the permanent collection at the National Archives and Records Administration and the other is a reserve set that is subject to the call of the President of the Senate to replace missing or incomplete electoral votes; and
- one set to the presiding judge in the district where the Electors met—this is also a reserve set that is subject to the call of the President of the Senate to replace missing or incomplete electoral votes.
December 28, 2016Electoral votes (the Certificates of Vote) must be received by the President of the Senate and the Archivist no later than nine days after the meeting of the electors. States face no legal penalty for failure to comply.If votes are lost or delayed, the Archivist may take extraordinary measures to retrieve duplicate originals.
There is contemporary precedent.
“On December 12 (2000), the Supreme Court ruled in a 7–2 vote that the Florida Supreme Court’s ruling requiring a statewide recount of ballots was unconstitutional, and in a 5–4 vote that the Florida recounts could not be completed before a December 12 “safe harbor” deadline, and should therefore cease and the previously certified total should hold.” Wiki on 2000 election
In our current situation, Justice Scalia is dead and gone and the republicans have yet to hold a vote on his replacement, setting up a potential 4-4 tie in the event of another Supreme Court challenge to the process.
That year the “safe harbor” deadline was Dec. 12th. This year it’s on the 13th. And since we are bound to hear a lot more about this particular law in the coming days, I thought it would be interesting to read a little bit of R.B. Ginsburg’s dissenting opinion from back in 2000.
“The December 12 ‘deadline’ for bringing Florida’s electoral votes into safe harbor lacks the significance the Court assigns it. Were that date to pass, Florida would still be entitled to deliver electoral votes Congress must count unless both Houses find that the votes ‘had not been… regularly given.’ The statute identifies other significant dates, specifying December 18 as ‘the date electors shall meet and give their votes’ and specifying ‘the fourth Wednesday in December’ — this year, December 27 — as the date on which Congress, if it has not received a State’s electoral votes, shall request the state secretary of state to send a certified return immediately. But none of these dates has ultimate significance in light of Congress’ detailed provisions for determining, on ‘the sixth day of January,’ the validity of electoral votes.” TIME
Dec. 13th is an arbitrary date which holds no real significance in terms of setting a limit on the certification of the votes in any state. It is of course, codified into law, but notice up there what it says about the penalties for the states if they miss those key dates: there is none.
It is possible that if these states are not capable of finishing Jill Stein’s recount process by Dec. 13th, someone from the Clinton camp will present a petition before the courts to have the results of those states tossed out since they cannot be “confirmed” while the recount is ongoing.
If the EC votes of those three states are out, then no candidate has a majority and Article 12 kicks in and it goes to the US House of Representatives for a state by state vote. The House is currently made up of 244 Republicans and 188 Democrats but that doesn’t mean much due to the fact that so much of the war-mongering Republican establishment and the Big Business donor class want Hillary in the Oval Office as opposed to Trump.
On Jan. 3rd the new class of 2017 takes office. Not much of a change there.
The CIAnonymous suggests they could vote for anyone they wanted to but I think Article 12 is quite clear on who is eligible. It might be interpreted as to include candidates who ran in the primary but even then the person gaining the next highest actual vote totals would be Bernie Sanders I believe (correct me if I am wrong) and I seriously doubt they would hand over the reigns of power to him.
In looking at what Jill Stein has done since first announcing her “recount” efforts, you will notice she is plugging ahead in spite of the fact that the Green Party wants no part of it and her former running mate wants no part of it. It is clear she has been influenced by the Democrats and Hillary Clinton’s campaign staff specifically and as she gains more attention now than she ever had, it’s bad attention. The kind that ensures no party or voter will ever trust her again.
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| My letter to The Wisconsin State Journal, which it did not publish. |
One state after another is putting up road blocks in front of her recount effort to the point where a legitimate recount is completely out of the question as is the case in Wisconsin which ruled each county Election Commission could decided if they wanted to do an actual count of the ballots or simply recheck the flawed tallies from the electronic voting machines. At that point, a recount is pointless because the individual Election Commissions that rigged their elections in the first place will be deciding whether they should do a real recount and expose themselves and their crimes. So recounting Wisconsin is pointless… but Jill Stein pressed forward anyway. They are not expected to complete the recount by Dec. 13th
In Pennsylvania they ruled against a mandated state-wide recount because Stein presented no evidence of malfeasance. Now Stein has filed in federal court to force a recount in the state. That will take precious days to decide and in the end my guess is they will rule in her favor, but again, with no hope of completing the delayed recount on time to meet the “safe harbor” deadline. It should be noted that Pennsylvania uses electronic voting machines, not ballot counting systems, so there are no paper ballots to count by hand. In short, there is no reliable way to recount the votes in Pennsylvania. All you can do is recount the votes from the rigged machines. Also, in this state 3 voters from each voting divisions have to formerly file a complaint locally with their election boards in order to get a recount. So far Stein’s people have a total of 75 divisions meeting that criteria out of 1,600. Statistically, that is nothing in terms of support. So she can’t even get people on the ground to come out in support of her actions. This one should be over as well but Stein continues to push forward.
In Michigan Trump’s team has filed a lawsuit to block the recount but that promises only to slow the process, not halt it altogether. The Stein people are fighting it and in the end, the truth of the agenda is expressed in the suit itself
“In Michigan, Mr Trump’s team filed a complaint with the elections board to block a recount of all 4.8 million ballots cast in the state, which he won by 10,700 votes. A recount there could begin next week.” BBC“”If allowed to proceed, the statewide hand recount could cost Michigan taxpayers millions of dollars and would put Michigan voters at risk of being disenfranchised in the electoral college.” Michigan Attorney General
The three states in question represent 46 Electoral College votes: Pennsylvania has 20, Michigan has 16 and Wisconsin has 10. Donald Trump now has 306 votes as it stands and in order for the 12th Amendment rule to apply, all three states must withhold their EC votes. If only the two largest do so, Pennsylvania and Michigan, Trump still has the necessary 270 majority needed to confirm his election.
In short, in order to miss the “safe harbor” deadline, Jill Stein’s recount effort has to press forward in all three states regardless of what folks are saying about her and regardless of how pointless the recounts are in terms of exposing our flawed, rigged election system.
In fact, her efforts are now doing more harm to the election integrity movement than they are helping it.
And it’s fare to talk about this effort to throw the election into turmoil via the dismissal of Electoral College voters because on several other fronts, the Clinton campaign is doing the same thing.
There is a petition on Change.org calling for EC voters to cast their votes for Hillary as opposed to how the voters in their districts want them to vote. They say the “real election” is on Dec. 19th and that voters can vote however they want.
Donald Trump has not been elected president. The real election takes place December 19, when the 538 Electors cast their ballots – for anyone they want.We are calling on “Conscientious Electors” to protect the Constitution from Donald Trump, and to support the national popular vote winner.
Ironic isn’t it? A week ago all the Hillary supporters were talking about how the Electoral College was set up to keep slave owners in power and suggesting that’s why Donald Trump actually won and now those same folks are calling on the corruptible EC system to vote against the will of the people and install Hillary Clinton (and her Haitian slave owning husband) as president. That, ladies and gentlemen is how the slave holders of the old days intended the EC to keep them in power.
In Michigan EC voters are receiving death threats from folks telling them there will be consequences if they cast their vote in line with the way the voters decided.
On the day after the election, several “progressive” websites including Politico, published the names of all the EC voters from each state. That certainly made it easier to pressure them, now didn’t it?
Seems to me someone is setting up a rather unsettling development in this year’s election. Stein’s seriously flawed recount effort is actually recounting nothing of consequence and seems to only be serving to bog down the process long enough to run headfirst into the “safe harbor” deadline of Dec. 13th. An arbitrary yet legally binding date to certify election totals in each state.
The fact that she picked these three particular states who’s EC vote totals will be JUST ENOUGH to force an “election” in the House of Representatives is also extremely suspect in my opinion.
And the fact that she continues with this deeply flawed effort of hers in spite of developments in each state which will absolutely prevent a real recount leaves me to believe she has been hired by the Clinton machine to toss this election into complete chaos in order to install Hillary Clinton (and possibly Mike Pence) in the White House.
Jill Stein should be ashamed of herself. She’s:
- destroying the real election integrity movement
- positioning the country for a major civil disruption
- making this effort in hopes that the election results are ultimately tossed because Americans “voted the wrong way’
- fighting like hell to install the SINGLE MOST CORRUPT WAR-MONGERING CANDIDATE WE HAVE EVER SEEN in the Oval Office.
Seems to me CIAnonymous has this one figured out. Also seems to me that Jill Stein is a despicable human being.
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Jim is a good guy.
The despicable person is Jim Fetzer and his ilk supporting a man like Trump. He got burned by supporting Obama and he will be burned even worse with this terrible nonsense he's spewing about Trump.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jB54XxbgI0E
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Trump did win – woo hoo! The EC is in the second article of the U.S. Constitution. Don't like it? Convene a CC and get seventy-five percent of the states to vote for your proposal.
Trump did win – woo hoo! The EC is in the second article of the U.S. Constitution. Don't like it? Convene a CC and get seventy-five percent of the states to vote for your proposal.
I see the troll is back. Go away!
I see the troll is back. Go away!
Trump did win – woo hoo! The EC is in the second article of the U.S. Constitution. Don't like it? Convene a CC and get seventy-five percent of the states to vote for your proposal.
Whoo-hoo! How wonderful that we may be able to celebrate the REAL winner of this election – the people spoke and it WAS NOT FOR TRUMP! He will never be my President. Hillary is #1
See 82.221.129.208 the steal is ON. No way back now.
Jill Stein is not "recounting the vote to see who actually won". She is recounting the vote in three states where purported discrepancies between polls and official vote counts might swing the election in Clinton's favor. If Stein is interested in democracy, she would have sought recounts in the three states where polls favored Trump, but went to Clinton AND three states where polls favored Clinton and went to Trump. That she did not choose this route necessarily raises suspicions of bias and collusion with the Clinton campaign. I hasten to add that such a one-sided recount not only undermines democracy, but also deprives Trump supporters of their constitutional right to equal protection. Stein surely understands all of this and, thus, deserves the criticism she's receiving.
Excellent letter to the editor Jim!
Love them or hate them, these are the rules as set down by our Founders who were very intelligent folks. They modified them somewhat in Amendments. They provided for majority vote by States, which were Sovereign entities then, not the whole country. Frankly, the system is so corrupt for other reasons one really does not know who won the popular vote at all. Many illegals have been permitted to vote with examples sent to former AG Holder who refused to prosecute them. Only four States have rules to require proof of citizenship when registering to vote; many or all of the others permit the "honor" system. This is outrageous. As usual no one will stand up and demand the entire corrupt voting system be reformed to an honest one which has built in checks by ordinary citizens. The other issue of the Electoral College would require changes in the Constitution itself. If people don't like the rules then change the rules but that is not an easy task either. However it went pretty smoothly during prohibition to quickly return to booze sales again. The Founders deliberately did not want the rules changed every day at every whim of every political hack. Winfield J. Abbe, Ph.D.,Physics
It was obvious to any astute observer before Dec. 1, the beginning date of the 51 day countdown to the big day Jan. 20, that as soon as she disclosed the kind of money she was quickly raising, now approaching $7 million, her goal was not a simple recount but to throw a monkey wrench into the electoral college machinery. This has fingerprints of lawyers all over it. This type of obstruction is what lawyers are expert at if they can’t win on the merits, then they slow down the process to a crawl or stop if necessary. No decision is always a “win” for them until a real final one is made, and they get paid win or lose. As the saying goes, “It ain’t over until it is over”. Now we are down to about 47 days on the clock but much can happen in 47 days: New applications to new courts such as has already happened to federal courts; accidents could happen, like airplane crashes or car accidents, you know the drill with others. Kennedy had an “accident” in 1963. Patton had an “accident” in 1945. Many others have had similar “accidents”. Both our Congress and Election system are totally corrupt now anyway. Obviously these people are not stupid enough to allow some stupid recount to reveal that total corruption are they? Notice the relative silence (before the storm?)of the Bonny and Clyde bank robbery team lately. They also have plenty of dinero too. Only time will tell and reveal the results. We must wait and see for 47 more days to discover what the powers that be had or have in store for us and it likely won’t be good news or pretty; but who knows? Are you prescient like Lucky Larry evidently was on 9/11/01 when he avoided having his usual breakfast at Windows of the World Restaurant at the top of the Mark that fateful day and lived from 75 to 90 and counting? As the saying goes, “truth is stranger than fiction”. But how do we know the truth when everything is secret protected by the full military force and power of our government? Winfield J. Abbe, Ph.D., Physics
Yeah, recounting the vote to see who actually won is anti-democratic. The only thing anti-democratic is Trump being president despite losing by over 2.5 million votes. What democracy!
NOPE! This is NOT going to happen. You can tuck it into the same "Nonsense" file as "Obama Is Going To Declare Martial Law So He Can Stay In Office". Sheesh! (How many times have we heard that one? They said it with Clinton and Bush, too.)
Here's the thing: The Wizards Behind The Curtain have ALWAYS had to walk a thin line, moving us in the New World Order direction by gradualism; avoiding any huge leaps and bounds that might awaken the Americonned Sheeple.
The Wizards know that if JUST ONCE they overplay their hand, they will lose control of us, and once they lose control of us they will NEVER, EVER get it back again. Good luck trying to overcome an entire nation out of control where 50% of the residences have one or (many) more guns!
The Wizards have been patiently tightening the noose around our necks since 1913. No way in hell are they going to try to pull an obvious stunt like this and try to put Hellary in office instead of Trump. That would be the end. That would be when the silent majority finally goes berserk. And we KNOW it's the silent majority that really has all the guns and ammo — not the loud, brain-dead millennial morons in the streets! If the "Deplorables" go full "damn the torpedoes", the millennial morons, the lawyers, and the politicians would be running for their lives!
The Wizards, the Bankers, they've worked too long and hard to lose their grip on us now. They're evil, but they're not stupid.
~ D-FensDogG
'Loyal American Underground'