Jim Fetzer, The Nature of Immorality

Jim Fetzer

Suppose a consortium of powerful interests wanted to replace a president with someone whose policies they preferred–and blame it on a patsy. What’s wrong with that? Or suppose the leaders of a foreign nation orchestrated a terrorist act as a rationale for US forces to take out their enemies—at the expense of 3,000 AmericansWhat’s wrong with that?  Or suppose a US administration decided to fake a mass elementary school shooting to promote its agenda to undermine the 2nd Amendment. What’s wrong with that?

While there’s obviously room for debate about the facts–where I personally have invested decades of collaborative research with the best experts to get them right–assuming we do have them right, these are egregious examples of the raw exercise of power exemplifying the (corrupt) principle, “Might makes right!” In other words, if you are powerful enough to impose your will upon others–no matter what the cost in liberty, property, or lives might be–you are entitled–morally entitled–to conduct those acts. Which raises the question, “If acts like these are (morally) wrong, what makes them (morally) wrong?”

We tend to take for granted the difference between right and wrong, where some acts–such as murder, robbery, kidnapping, and rape–are clearly wrong, while others–such as truthfulness, honesty, kindness, and candor–are right. But we seldom stop to ask ourselves what it is about actions of the one kind that make them wrong or about actions of the second kind that make them right. Having offered courses in ethics and society, I have considered whether or not there is an objective foundation for drawing these distinctions.

There turn out to be at least eight different theories of the difference between right and wrong. Four of them are relatively familiar and (even) traditional, to wit: subjectivism; family values;  religious-based ethics; and cultural relativism. The other four are less familiar to the public but, more importantly tend to be the focus of philosophical discussion: ethical egoismlimited utilitarianism; classic utilitarianism; and deontological moral theory. The question thus becomes, How can we arbitrate between them in an objective (even scientific) manner?

Those familiar with this publication may be aware of my previous investigation of (what are widely known as) “conspiracy theories”, where the CIA invented the term “conspiracy theorist” as a form of denigration. The agency does not like it when (let us call them) citizen-scholars conduct their own research inquiries into politically significant crimes because–more often than not–they lead back to the government itself. The same standards applied to scientific theories can be applied to conspiracy theories–often with devastating results.

Criteria of Evaluation

My thoughts thus extended to the prospect that theories about morality–which are, after all, theories–might be evaluated by criteria that parallel those used to evaluate scientific theories, including even theories about conspiracies. And, indeed, the classic criteria of adequacy (CA) initially advanced by the American philosopher of science, Carl G. Hempel, for whom I wrote my undergraduate thesis at Princeton in 1962, turn out to be as applicable to conspiracy theories as much as they are to standard scientific:

  • (CA-1) the clarity and precision of the language in which alternative theories are expressed;
  • (CA-2) their scope of application for the purpose of explanation and prediction;
  • (CA-3) their respective degrees of empirical support on the available evidence; or,
  • (CA-4) the economy, elegance or simplicity with which they satisfy (CA-1) – (CA-3)?

Their applicability to theories of morality, however, is not as straightforward as their applicability to conspiracy theories, especially because of what ought to qualify as “empirical support” in the case of theories of morality. My solution is to adopt traditional cultural practices as appropriate for cases that historically have been regarded as morally wrong, such as murder, robbery, kidnapping, and rape, on the one hand, and alternatively as morally right, such as truthfulness, honesty, kindness, and candor, on the other, which provide “empirical data”.

Since they constituted (what we might call) clear cases of moral behavior in contrast to immoral, a defensible theory of morality ought to produce outcomes in their determinations of which acts are right and which are wrong consistent with past human practices and are otherwise unacceptable. Similarly, insofar as considerations of economy, elegance or simplicity do not appear to apply, they can be further evaluated by the extent to which they clarify and illuminate other acts that are more controversial and complex, an issue to which I shall return.

Given these preliminary considerations, It appears to be appropriate (for the comparison of theories of morality) to adopt the following as counterparts to (CA-1) through (CA-4). Since the clarify and precision of language does not arise in this context. I have replaced it with the desideratum that a defensible moral theory must not reduce to the principle that “Might makes right!”, where those who are able to impose their will upon others are right for doing so. The revised version of these conditions of adequacy thus become:

  • (CA-1*) they must not reduce to the principle, “Might makes right”!, which is the source of the problem;
  • (CA-2*} their scope of application for the purpose of explaining and predicting the moral character of acts;
  • (CA-3*) their proper classification of acts generally acknowledged as right and wrong; and, additionally,
  • (CA-4*) the the extent to which they shed light upon and clarify more complex and controversial cases.

Examples of those “more complex and controversial cases” might include that of legalizing marijuana, the restriction of abortion, and changing a child’s sex by means of chemical or surgical procedures, which has become a highly popular practice among one political party in power in the United States today (but less so with the party out of power). Other cases, of course, could likewise be used as an additional basis for arbitrating between them.

Preliminary Considerations

There are lots of books on morality that philosophers have published over the years, where I make no pretense of being familiar with most or even many. At the time I offered courses in ethics and society, I used a book authored by one James Rachels, The Elements of Moral Philosophy (4th ed., 2002). There are other editions, of course, and many other books. I just happened to have used this one. And any of those other books could be used as resources to test and compare my definitions of these alternative theories and how I evaluate them.

Right off the bat, however, before we plunge into the evaluation of alternative theories, we need to distinguish between the concepts of legality, of morality, and of propriety. Actions are legal when they conform to the law, which tends to be specified by published statutes distinctive of various jurisdictions. What is legal vs. what is not does not require conceptualization but the ability to look up statutes where they are to be found. These statues are generally public, since it would be counterproductive to use the power of the state to punish those who violate them if the public is not made aware of the state’s expectations.

The question of morality, which we are addressing here, is not something that you can simply “look up” in published documents and ascertain as matters of fact for different jurisdictions at various times. Laws of society, unlike laws of nature, can be violated and can be changed, which under the US Constitution, is a responsibility delegated to the legislative branch (which passes the laws) to be enforced by the executive branch (through the Department of Justice and its agencies, such as the FBI), and interpreted by the judicial branch (the highest authority of which is the United States Supreme Court). That used to be taught in high school civics classes, which have all but become remnants of the past.

The principles of morality are supposed to be universal and unchanging, which apply to all persons at all times and places. Questions of propriety are not the same, since they, too, like fads and fashions, can come and go. They include such niceties as a man walking on the side of the sidewalk closest to the street when accompanying a woman (which derived from the horse-and-buggy days to protect the woman from water should the buggy splash it her way); or using the right fork to eat your salad (especially outmoded when most food today is meant to be eaten by holding it in hour hand). And today it appears to have become a question, “What is a woman?”, given the nature of contemporary politics and discourse, even regarding the most basic biological facts.

Among the most basic methods of philosophy for evaluating position is known as the method of counterexample. Say, if someone claimed, “All pennies are made out of copper”, adducing a penny from 1943 would suffice as a basis of refutation since, because of the shortage of copper needed to fight World War II, they were made of steel instead. Similarly, theories of morality that classify clear acts of right and wrong improperly–or that fail to elucidate and clarify more complex and controversial cases–will therefore be excluded from consideration as the most defensible theory of morality of those under consideration here.

Popular Theories of Morality

From this point of view–and applying criteria of evaluation (CA-1*) to (CA-4*), let’s consider the four popular theories of morality identified above. First off, using the symbol “=df” to mean equals by definition or as the definition sign,

(T1)  Subjectivism  =df  an action A is right (for person P) if P approves of A.

Clearly, under this standard, what might be right for one person might be wrong for another or even for the same person at different times, which (of course) is why it qualifies as “subjectivism”. Consider your own personal murder, robbery, kidnapping or or rape as action A. If someone P approves of murdering  (or of kidnapping, robbing, or raping you), then if theory (T1), Subjectivism, were true, you would have no recourse to complain that what they did was wrong. Indeed, by (T1), as long as they approved of A, that action would be (morally) right.

Obviously, (T1) Subjectivism violates the conditions of evaluation (CA-1*) and (CA-3*), since it reduces to the corrupt principle that might makes right and, in addition, classifies traditionally accepted examples of morally wrong behavior (all of the above) as though they were morally right. And while it applies to us equally as individuals, it does not classify the same behavior as moral and immoral, even under otherwise identical circumstances .Since (T1) Subjectivism cannot satisfy those conditions of evaluation, it must be set aside an no longer a candidate for an acceptable theory of morality.

(T2)  Family Values  =df  an action A is right for a family F, if F approves of A.

Consider the bigotry of the Archie Bunker family (“All in the Family”), the cultish conduct of the Charles Manson family (addressed in Vincent Bugliosi’s book, Helter Skelter), or the Slaughter family portrayed in the film, “The Texas Chainsaw Massacre“, Since (T2) Family Values represents an expansion of theory (T1) to a family, it would be expected to fail on the same (or similar) grounds. The Slaughter family, of course, represents an especially gruesome illustration, where they kill, butcher, and barbecue unsuspecting visitors to their filling station and store. No surprise, therefore, that (T2) Family Values thus falls short.

(T3) Religious-Based Values. =df. an action A is right for members of religion R if religion R approves of actions of kind A

An obvious problem arises: which religion? But that’s also the point. There is no requirement that different religions be approving or disapproving of all and only the same kinds of actions. Consider: pantheism, polytheism, monotheism, deism, Buddhism, Confucianism,  Taoism, Hinduism, Judaism, Brahmanism, Zoroastrianism, Mohammedanism (Islam), Christianity (Roman Catholicism, Protestantism, fundamentalism, Assembly of God, . . . ). Indeed, the inquisition and Crusades suggest that (as Bertrand Russel observed) more have died in the name of religion than from any other cause. Clearly violating (CA-1*) and (CA-3*)

(T4)  Cultural Relativism. =df. an action A is right for members of Culture C if Culture C approves of actions of kind A.

Once we grasp that (T2) Family Values, (T3) Religious-Based Values, and (now) (T4) Cultural Relativism are simply matters of attitude (exhibit by one person, a family, a religion, or a culture), it should be easy to generate counterexamples of each relatively obvious. A warlike culture (on the level of a tribe, a community, or a state) that approves of imposing its will on other tribes, communities, or states violates (CA-1*) as well as (CA-3*), once again. Moreover, each of these theories make morality simply a question of fact about attitudes and values, where there is no role for moral criticism, moral progress, or moral reform, which are without meaning. As long as those attitudes and values prevail, actions in accord with them are right. Period!

Philosophical Theories of Morality

There’s not a lot of room for debate about the intellectual merits of theories (T1) through (T4), therefore, which philosophers tend to give scant attention. More serious are more intellectually defensive alternatives, most of which also fail to satisfy the key conditions of (CA-1*) and (CA-3*). Three of the four are consequentialist conceptions, where an action A is right when it produces at least as much good as any alternative action. The question becomes, “What is the good?” Candidates have included wealth, power, happiness, and more. Here we shall consider happiness as the measure of the good. But for whom?

(T5) Ethical Egoism. =df. an action A is right when it produces at least as much happiness for person P as an available alternative.

But then consider classic examples of murderous narcissists who satisfy the conception of Ethical Egoism to a “t”: Ted Bundy, John Gacy, or Jeffrey Dahmer. Ted was a handsome guy who kidnapped, raped, and murdered at least 30 girls and women, where the actual total will never be know. Gacy kidnapped, tortured, raped and murdered at least 33 young men and boys. Dahmer murdered and dismembered at least 17 males between 1978 and 1991, where his practices included necrophilia, cannibalism, and the preservation of body parts. Could it possibly be more obvious that (T5) Ethical Egoism does not properly define “morality”?

(T6) Limited Utilitarianism. =df an action A is right when it produces at least as much happiness for the group G as any alternative.

Think of The Third Reich, the Mafia, or (even) General Motors, when its puts its profit line ahead of safety for the American people, its own customers. A nice example is the Corvair, which Ralph Nader publicized in his book, Unsafe at Any Speed. I regard (T6) Limited Utilitarianism as the most pernicious of all moral theories, because it emboldens groups to undertake collective actions in order to enrich themselves or otherwise control the course of events, exemplified by the consortium of powerful interests to take out JFK and replace him with LBJIsrael and its allies in the CIA and the DOD to attack the United States on 9/11, and the Obama admin to manipulate public opinion by taking the Sandy Hook elementary school shoot, which was a FEMA drill presented as mass murder.

(T7) Classic Utilitarianism  =df. an action A is right when it produces at least as much happiness for everyone as any alternative.

Some actions, of course, could produce more happiness for some members of the community than for others, so it becomes a matter of net happiness, which equals gross happiness minus gross unhappiness.The lynch mob, for example, may derive more happiness from lynching their targets than any alternative act, but would obviously not induce happiness for those they are stringing up. The government takes actions that affect (almost) everyone in the United States, for example, some (Social Security, Medicare, Medicate, Unemployment Insurance, and Workmen’s Compensation) seem to serve the public well. Those actions are moral as long as they produce more happiness than any alternative.

The difference between (T2) Limited and (T3) Classic Utilitarianism–where  many philosophers defend (T3) Classic Utilitarianism but (to the best of my knowledge) none defend (T2) Limited Utilitarianism–is that the only effects or consequences that count in evaluating the morality of actions are those for the members of the group. As long as they benefit, the consequences for others–no matter how numerous or how severe and damaging–simply don’t count. The crucial defect in (T3) Classic Utilitarianism, as I see it, is that actions that might make the majority happy can be taken at the cost of gross injustice for the few.

Deontological Moral Theory

(T8) Deontological Moral Theory. =df action action A is right when it entails always treating other persons as ends and never merely as means.

Let me explain the concept of “treating other persons as ends”. Aretha got it right: R-E-S-P-E-C-T turns out to be (as I see it) the foundation of morality and therefore of right action What’s wrong with murder, robbery, kidnapping, and rape is that other persons are being used merely as means .to satisfy the aims or objectives of those who are abusing them. When groups abuse other groups, the same phenomenon takes place. Stealing elections (as occurred in 2020 and in 2022 and may again occur in 2024) to preserve political control by one party over the other involves using a large segment (even the majority) the country merely as means and disrespecting their right to contribute to the decision of who should lead the nation in Washington, D.C.

Suppose Democratic hatred for Donald J. Trump is so great that, for him to be denied the outcome of an election that he would have legitimately won–by a margin of roughly 100,000,000 to 37,000,000, by my best estimation–is an apt (even perfect) illustration. If the happiness that was produced by that outcome when the gross unhappiness of Trump supporters is subtracted from the gross happiness of the Democrats and yields the largest happiness outcome for the nation as a whole, then stealing the election was morally right!  We thus begin to understand why even (T7) Classic Utilitarianism is not sufficient to define “morality” and establish the difference between right and wrong.

So if stealing the election was not morally right, then (T7) Classic Utilitarianism cannot be an adequate theory of morality. Indeed, it represents (what might be called) the rape of democracy, because those who engineered the theft of the 2020 election were abusing Trump supporters on a national scale just as the rapist abuses his victim. And notice too that gang rapes and mass murders are morally on a par but far more damaging to their victims than are ordinary rapes and murders–a case where there are quantitative differences in crimes that, in effect, offer an easy way to measure the magnitude of the crime.

That’s why (the claim of) killing 20 kids and 6 adults at Sandy Hook carried such emotional impact,. especially with parents. It was an act of (faux) terrorism by the Obama administration that was coldly calculated with advice from social psychologists and psychiatrists. Obama was using the (staged) event to affect the emotions and attitudes of the American people to surrender their rights to keep and bear arms under the 2nd Amendment. That’s what Sandy Hook was all about. (And I have explained it in detail on many occasions, such as here and here and here.)

Among the most important points to grasp with regard to (T8) Deontological Moral Theory is that, as long as parties are treating one another with respect, they may engage in mutually beneficial relationships, such as doctor/patient, employer/employee, teacher/student. Consider employer/employee relations as an illustration. As long as the employer is not subjecting his employees to unsafe working conditions, paying them a fair wage, and not otherwise abusing them (sexually, for example), their relations can be appropriate and moral. In return, as long as employees are performing their work successfully, are not being paid for work they did not perform, and are not stealing from them, they can be mutually beneficial relationships, where employers and using their employees to run a business and make a profit while their employees are using their employers to earn a living and support themselves and their families.

When we apply (T8) Deontological Moral Theory to the United States today, we discover that the rule of law and the most basic principle upon which our nation was founded–“Equal Justice Under Law”–has been massively abrogated by the Democratic Party, which (as I have ascertained by extensive research, which began before the election and continues to this day) WENT ALL OUT TO STEAL THE 2020 ELECTION, there is nothing remotely moral about the Executive Branch today. Selective prosecution and the gross weaponization of the Department of Justice and the FBI are manifested by the series of targets for prosecution (the DNC’s principal opponent) and those it protects (the President’s son and his allies in corrupt business practices).

It has saddened me beyond words that the United States of America, which I had the honor of serving, has sunk to the level that special interests (such as the war in Ukraine) are receiving massive funding, while our own border has been turned into a welcome mat for miscreants around the world. Other nations are emptying their prisons and unloading the inmates from their institutions to create the world’s largest banana republic: Laws are not being enforced; criminals are being supported; their victims are being punished. I may not be in the position to do something about it, but I can demonstrate–here and now–that America has now become the most immoral and corrupt nation on Planet Earth. And that’s not likely to change anytime soon.

James H. Fetzer, Ph.D., a former Marine Corps officer and McKnight Professor Emeritus on the Duluth Campus of the University of Minnesota, has published 24+ academic books and 12+ in conspiracy research.

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34 thoughts on “Jim Fetzer, The Nature of Immorality”

  1. So many comments under this article by Jim, but none having to do with the article itself……which is beyond brilliant……and a beetch to read, since the world today is so linear and this essay takes us into thinking along lines we left before sound bytes ruled our existence. The following article from ZH is quite intriguing and I would bet most (including myself) have little knowledge of this particular hoax.
    I intend to read Jim’s article several times before I can make an informed comment, but I will say one thing. Religion is NOT the cause of all wars. The corruption and distortion of many religions seems to be the problem. This is not to say there are religions that are based on using violence against non-believers…Talmudic Judaism comes to mind. But does the 10 Commandments (the basis of true Christianity) offer anything other than a moral way to live and respect our fellow traveler?

    Anywho, here’s that article and a quick quote from it:

    https://www.zerohedge.com/political/greatest-hoax-all-time

    Malcolm X’s famous quote applies:

    The press is so powerful in its image-making role, it can make the criminal look like he’s the victim and make the victim look like he’s the criminal. This is the press, an irresponsible press. It will make the criminal look like he’s the victim and make the victim look like he’s the criminal. If you aren’t careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed and loving the people who are doing the oppressing.

  2. RIGHT NOW GOT THE SAME FUCKING REJECTION: From: jack.graham@telus.net
    Sent: Sunday, October 1, 2023 10:06 AM
    To: ‘jfetzer@d.umn.edu’
    Subject: RE: Robert Malone, M.D., Propaganda and the U.S. Government

    Jim, — This article is a classic exposition on how to publish falsehoods by government-sponsored propaganda The murder of Kennedy was obviously a sophisticated assassination, and whatever it was , it was not the act o a one-nut as we were told by the Warren Commission organized and appointed by LBJ who was the first to benefit from the death of Kennedy, and therefore the obvious first suspect. The country was plunged into the Vietnam War never authorized by Congress, but supported by unconstitutional conscription since abolished and major media of the United States which repeated the big lie that the Geneiva Agreements guaranteed the independence of South Vietnam. The murder of 3000 Americans in the twin towers at the World Trade Center on 9/11 was discernable by experts from the outset that the collapse of the twin towers was not caused by aircraft collisions and office fires, as we were told the 9/11 Commission and the major media of the United States. These tragedies could not have occurred without outrageous propaganda of the government of the United States peddled by the major media with of our country. Climate change and COVID vaccines are political hoaxes with no scientific basis, pushed on government-sponsored propaganda with the assistance of the major media of the United States. When we rewrite our Constitution, we shall be obliged to assure revision of freedom of the press which peddles government-sponsored propaganda. – J. R. G., jack.graham@telus.net, 418-888-5049

  3. So, back to biz……any comments on McCarthy being ousted and the possibility (slim as it is…and I do not see how he could find the time in between being in various kangaroo cases) of Trump in the speakership?

      1. Jack…just to get this correct….the comment goes right up now unless there are more than two links. No need to respond…I’ll know right away if I’m correctly reading your reply to Toni.

      2. From your Oct 5 comment to me that has no reply button…

        >>EJD, I still don’t see your part one. Is it being moderated? You can tell if it’s in moderation if you can see it when you’re logged in.

        Sometimes comments disappear as soon as you hit post. That’s when you have to email it to Jim to post for you.>>

        I can only reply to comments but no virgin ones. Unable to put anything significant on my own. I’ve reached out to Jim and Jack and no repair of the things. If they don’t fix it, I will leave here again.

        Thanks.

      3. EJD, let me see if I understand. By virgin comments you mean threads that one starts oneself with a comment? In that case, go to the bottom of the page where it says “Leave a reply” and paste the comment there, it will appear at the top of the list comments with a reply button.

        Reply buttons are only appended to the original comment and its first reply, and further replies don’t have their own reply buttons. This is to keep the width of the comment column manageable. The solution is to go up the column and reply to the first reply button you see. Even though the reply box will appear directly below the wrong comment, after you hit reply it will posted in the appropriate place in the list. For clarity, you can always add the name of the person you’re replying to, if there is one.

        Another problem I can foresee is that one’s reply, as far as the comment system is concerned, may still be to the wrong user. Especially in email notifications. It may say that you replied to so-and-so, when you only did because that was the first reply button. This can be confusing, but means nothing.

        As Jack says, a comment goes to moderation if it has a link. It might be two links now. If so, it will be visible to the commentator right away, but not to others. If the comment doesn’t show up at all and disappears as soon as you post it, then it’s gone and you have to email it to Jim to post it for you. jfetzer@d.umn.eduv

        If these are not your issues, or if I’m completely un-understandable (which is possible), please lay it out again.

        One more question, is this your part one? If so, well-written. Jack posted it yesterday.

        ********************************************************************

        This article is a classic exposition on how to publish falsehoods by government-sponsored propaganda The murder of Kennedy was obviously a sophisticated assassination, and whatever it was , it was not the act o a one-nut as we were told by the Warren Commission organized and appointed by LBJ who was the first to benefit from the death of Kennedy, and therefore the obvious first suspect. The country was plunged into the Vietnam War never authorized by Congress, but supported by unconstitutional conscription since abolished and major media of the United States which repeated the big lie that the Geneiva Agreements guaranteed the independence of South Vietnam. The murder of 3000 Americans in the twin towers at the World Trade Center on 9/11 was discernable by experts from the outset that the collapse of the twin towers was not caused by aircraft collisions and office fires, as we were told the 9/11 Commission and the major media of the United States. These tragedies could not have occurred without outrageous propaganda of the government of the United States peddled by the major media with of our country. Climate change and COVID vaccines are political hoaxes with no scientific basis, pushed on government-sponsored propaganda with the assistance of the major media of the United States. When we rewrite our Constitution, we shall be obliged to assure revision of freedom of the press which peddles government-sponsored propaganda.

  4. Regarding Comments — [this is a test comment] — I believe all comment issue have been put to rest — So lets see what do I have to write for the comment be labeled spam — I could talk about Jewish supremacy and egregious self-righteous racism. Jewish-funded hate groups like the ADL, SPLC, and IREHR.org have not uttered a single peep about Israel deporting Jewish blacks back to Africa — https://www.voanews.com/a/black-hebrews-in-israel-face-threat-of-deportation/7190170.html. Imagine If blacks were being forcibly deported from any white nation — the Israeli “anti” groups would be howling like wolves at the racists proposing such an atrocity.

    We live in a world controlled by a projectionist who project their crimes on others while standing in livid indignation as Europeans attempt to reflect the projector using a mirror of truth.

    moderated
      1. Comments with links are being moderated — but moderation is not censorship or being banned — it is to prevent the raft of spam that hits the site on a daily basis. I approved your comment. We have modified the process to allow 2 links before moderation.

      2. EJD, I still don’t see your part one. Is it being moderated? You can tell if it’s in moderation if you can see it when you’re logged in.

        Sometimes comments disappear as soon as you hit post. That’s when you have to email it to Jim to post for you.

  5. In as much as there are no surprise random audits of US elections, I will never the believe Demented Joe, the incoherent totalitarian dictator, was legitimately elected in 2020. The amount of damage he has done in just three years is beyond all comprehension. Now we have the Lahaina, Maui fire which many believe to have been caused be by some type of directed energy weapon.
    Since I’m 80 years old, , I’m hoping for another mass extinction event. Strange as it seems, such an event is the best hope for the survival of the planet.

    moderated
  6. Just disgusted with all this nonsense Jim.
    Who is running the show here?

    I’ve stayed away from posting at both “alt” and “main stream” sites for a long time because of all the throttling and banning and crap I have had to put up with. And now it is happening here too???

    moderated
  7. F**K IT!!
    Can’t get part one to post. Get this together Jim.
    Don’t post PART TWO without the rest of the comment as it will not make sense!!!!!!!!!!!

    moderated
    1. How many times have we posted inquiries of this nature? I lost count a long time ago. There is never an explanation, except to send Jim an email and ask him to post it. It got too tiresome for me.

      moderated
      1. Hey Will, long time…

        Don’t want to believe the gossip about Jim at all but shite, same nonsense here for folks with good ideas and opinions as with the other controlled op sites???

        Why would he ask for me to return (I already had) and then not respond?

        A PSYCHIC EPIDEMIC (song)
        https://www.bitchute.com/video/1hqeShieZ2jY/

        Attachment

      2. Yep, EJ…it’s been a while….good to see you back, also.
        ….had a few reasons (one similar to yours) for not commenting. The other being cleaning up after that damn hurricane. I did in no way expect the damage it caused….but nothing structural. This was the 5th I have sat through and the first time I saw trees bend horizontal and snap about 20 feet up. THAT is power.

    2. Jim says that even he gets the “looks like spam” message when he tries to post. At his own site! It’s not difficult to see that there is outside interference in the comment system, nor that it is having the desired effect of winnowing out commentators. Not even the indefatigable Will is commenting anymore.

      Far be it from me to speculate as to who may desire this outcome.

      I don’t agree that no effort has been spent on remedies for this situation. I think the effort has been made over and over again. Once a ‘fix’ is made to the system, it is countermanded by the next ‘bug.’ Spam denigrating Fetzer was defended against by closer monitoring of commentators’ posts. Forces outside the site have now glommed onto that monitoring system, and with a gratuitous insult, make it harder for real commentators to post.

      This sows the intended dissension. But like the song says, don’t give up, because you have friends. We’re not beaten yet.
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gO6fAJcN89k&t=282s

      moderated
      1. Toni…just love that title of indefatigable”……stubbornness runs in my genes….my daughter has taken it to an art. Anywho, nice to be back and have the comments go up immediately……kudos again to Jack. Always good to see you here, Toni!

      2. Good to see you, too, Will the Indefatigable!

        Is hurricane season over now? Or would it be, if our weather was not manipulated? Silly question, I guess. They can whip one up when they want to.

        I hope they don’t target Florida. Too many good people like yourself there.

      3. Thanks, Toni…nope…not over as yet…but I would doubt this area would get another like that one….probably the worst to hit Suwannee in at least 100 years. I really underestimated this one. IF it had hit us the way it hit Madison and Perry (about 30 miles west), we would have most definitely lost our homes. Folks have taken all the downed trees and placed them by the county roads. That alone will take at least 6 months to pick up and clear. Trees are still falling that have been hung up in other trees, so it’s pretty dangerous to walk in the woods lest one fall on your head. We have what are called water oaks or laurel oaks here that have virtually no root system. They exist on surface roots and storing water in the trees themselves….as a result, they are up-rooted quite easily. As you cut those trees, the water actually squirts out. They had trucks come from as far west as Colorado to help in getting electricity back. I was fairly prepared, so I had water stored and crazily enough, lost no food even though the electric was off for about 6 days.
        Thank you for your concern….just loving these “instant” replies.

      4. Wow, what a mess! Those water trees. So different from the west.

        My brother and his wife just moved to Stuart, Fla on the east coast. They want to live on a boat! I guess they’ll just sail away when the weather comes.

        I love the instant publishing. It’s almost like chatting.

      5. Toni….my replies might come a bit late since I refuse to be a victim of that Capcha crap and wait until I have tried multiple times when it seems to “surrender” and allow me to log in without it. Anyway, yep, lived in Stuart for a couple of years with my wife who crazily enough had a friend who was married to a guy with whom I went to HS in Queens, NY. He was a chef in a local restaurant in Stuart and I was a chef in my own place….around 15 years after our graduation…what were the chances, eh? His name was Stuart Vigoda…a nephew of Abe Vigoda….from that Barney Miller series and the Godfather.

      1. The system won’t accept my PART ONE as a fresh post. Only 341 words and the only link is to the page with my new email addie in Toni’s post???

        Replies seem to work.

        Not familiar with you Jack. Are you the IT guy for Jim or something?? If you are and have read my posts are you able to change my email addie for me?? If not I can receive no notice of others comments to me.

        Thanks

  8. PART TWO

    Also…

    Zbigniew Brzezinski (Morning Joe’s father in law)
    Between Two Ages: America’s Role in the Technetronic Era (written 50 years ago)

    “People, governments and economies of all nations must serve the needs of multinational banks and corporations.”

    >>I may not be in the position to do something about it..>>

    Ah, but you are and all of us are. I’ve been trying to stimulate change for a long time.
    SOLUTIONS (essay)
    https://www.bitchute.com/video/TsqcMC9tPGg2/

    A min of brilliance by the late John Trudell from 40+ years ago prophesizing the power of the corporate structure:
    https://www.bitchute.com/video/gT1muR1A1KAP/

    moderated
  9. WTF???
    I am unable to post my comment. What is wrong with this system??
    Can’t change my email addie as the confirmation email never shows up.
    Posts get the “…looks like SPAM” routine.
    And now a 439 word comment disappears??
    I’ll try l putting it in two parts…

    moderated

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